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Section I: Information Sources
I1 Where can I find the latest FAQ list?
I2 What gambling information is available on the World Wide Web?
I3 Where is the gambling archive?
I4 Where can I get books about gambling?
I5 Where can I get discounts on gambling books/software?
I6 What other sources of gambling information are available?
Section H: History of Rec.Gambling
H1 A brief history of rec.gambling.
H2 What is WRGPT?
H3 What is BARGE?
H4 What is IRC Poker?
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Section W: Welcome to Rec.Gambling!
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Q:W1 What is Rec.Gambling?
A:W1 (Steve Jacobs)
Rec.gambling was originally a single newsgroup, but has now been split
into several different groups in order to allow readers to more easily
focus their attention on specific topics. Although rec.gambling has been
superceded by these new groups, it is likely that the term "rec.gambling"
will live on to refer to these groups as a whole, especially in
connection with such activities as WRGPT and BARGE. These newsgroups are
devoted to discussion of all forms of gambling and wagering, and the
gaming industry. If you are new to rec.gambling, or you have not read
this message previously, please take a few moments to read this message,
since it may help you to find many different sources of information on
gambling.
The purposes of this message are:
To provide guidelines for posting to rec.gambling.*
To help you find the latest versions of the rec.gambling.* Frequently
Asked Questions (FAQ) lists, which should be read before posting
questions to rec.gambling.* newsgroups.
To help you find other sources of information about gambling, such as
the rec.gambling archive and the World Wide Web home page for
rec.gambling.
To provide some of the history of rec.gambling, and the various events
associated with the newsgroups, including:
WRGPT (World Rec.Gambling.Poker Tournament)
BARGE (Big Annual Rec.Gambling Excursion)
IRC Poker (online poker games against live opponents)
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Q:W2 What guidelines are there for posting to rec.gambling.*?
A:W2 (Steve Jacobs)
If you have not already done so, we would strongly urge all readers of
rec.gambling.* (especially those who are new to USENET) to review the
material in the group news.announce.newusers. Although this group is
primarily intended for new users, it would be a good idea for anyone who
posts messages to USENET newsgroups to review this material
periodically. Guidelines which generally apply to USENET newsgroups will
also apply to rec.gambling.*.
Use appropriate subject lines in order to target your message to those
who are most interested. Whenever practical, try to include one of the
following keywords (or something similar) in the "Subject:" line in
order to make it easier for readers who are only interested in one or
two topics:
POKER BLACKJACK VIDEO POKER CRAPS ROULETTE
SLOTS LOTTERY RACES PONIES DRIVEL
A few points of netiquette to keep in mind before posting to
rec.gambling.*:
Before posting, consider whether your post will be of general interest
to the group. If your message is primarily targeted to one or two
individuals, then use email instead.
Appropriate topics for these groups: Gambling and wagering in all forms.
Although the groups tend to focus heavily on games which permit the
player to gain an advantage over the house, many games which are
"unbeatable" are discussed here as well. Trip reports from recent visits
to casinos are also welcome, and enjoyed by many readers (especially
those who are unable to get to the casinos as often as they might like).
Discussions often include some heavy mathematical analysis as it relates
to gambling (especially combinatorics, probability/statistics, and game
theory), and results of computer analysis and/or simulation of specific
games.
Try to stay on topic as much as possible. If the discussion strays to
non-gambling topics, please consider moving the topic to a more
appropriate forum or to email. An occasional stray discussion is OK,
just don't get carried away.
Before posting, check the FAQ to see if your question is already
answered there. If you are unwilling (or too lazy) to check the FAQ
first, then don't be surprised if the only answer you receive is "see
the FAQ".
It is a good idea to read the entire FAQ at least once (even if you
don't have specific questions), and to "lurk" for a while before posting
to the groups. If you are just stopping by to sell something, don't
bother -- we've seen the "MAKE MONEY FAST" post and other scams before,
and we don't appreciate them. We're primarily here for discussion of
gambling topics, so if you won't be around to hold up your end of the
discussion, then it is very unlikely that your post is appropriate for
this group. Messages of the form "gambling is evil/stupid/unhealthy" are
completely unwelcome here.
If there is any question about the legality of your message, then you
probably shouldn't post it. Although it is perfectly OK to talk about
gambling here, we cannot actually _gamble_ here, and we cannot post
messages which could be construed as assisting someone to perform
wagering services of any kind.
Advertisements are generally not welcome in USENET newsgroups, and
rec.gambling is no exception. If you have something to sell, please use
the appropriate .forsale newsgroup instead. However, some leeway may be
permitted for software and books that are gambling related, especially
if special discounts are offered to the rec.gambling community. Long ads
are simply not appropriate. Frequent posting of ads is also not
appropriate -- once a month is often enough.
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Section I: Information Sources
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Q:I1 Where can I find the latest FAQ lists.
A:I1 (Steve Jacobs)
The FAQ files are posted to the specific group for the FAQ file (such as
rec.gambling.craps for the Craps FAQ) as well as to rec.gambling.misc.
These posts are made regularly, usually once every three weeks. This
welcome message is actually part of the FAQ for rec.gambling.*, but the
welcome message is posted once each week in order to provide a
convenient starting point for new readers, and to avoid posts by people
who are looking for the FAQ.
The multiple posted (ASCII) parts of the FAQ are archived at
rtfm.mit.edu (18.181.0.24) in the directory /pub/usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq.
The files are: welcome, general, casinos, blackjack, poker, craps,
sports, and misc. To obtain the files, first try ftp to rtfm.mit.edu and
look under that directory. If ftp does not work from your site, then try
the mail server:
send email to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with
send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/welcome
send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/general
send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/casinos
send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/blackjack
send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/poker
send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/craps
send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/sports
send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/other-games
in the body of the message (leave the subject line empty). If you don't
want all of them, include only the lines of the ones you want. You must
repeat the path information for each file.
The ASCII versions of the FAQ are also available from ftp.conjelco.com
in the directory pub/faq.
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Q:I2 What gambling information is available on the World Wide Web?
A:I2 (Steve Jacobs)
Chuck Weinstock has created HTML versions of all sections of the
rec.gambling FAQ, and made them available at ConJelCo. The latest
versions of these FAQ lists may be obtained via the World Wide Web at:
Rec.gambling FAQ http://www.conjelco.com/faq/
The following sites may also be of interest to gamblers:
Atlantic City http://pluto.njcc.com/~lemke/ac/ac.html
ConJelCo Home Page http://www.conjelco.com/
Foxwoods Maillist Homepage http://www.tc.cornell.edu/~jeg/r.g/fox/fox.html
Las Vegas Advisor http://www.infi.net/vegas/lva/
Las Vegas Online http://www.intermind.net/las.vegas.on-line/homepage.html
Maryland Casinos http://www.jaeger.com/~erich/marygamb.html
Reno Hilton http://www.sierra.net/Hilton/Reno/
Virtual Las Vegas http://www.infi.net/vegas/vlv/
Vegas.com Home Page http://www.vegas.com/
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Q:I3 Where is the gambling archive?
A:I3 (Abdul Jalib M'Hall)
The gambling archive is intended to store stuff *useful* to rec.gamblers,
like the FAQ lists, blackjack card-counting information, poker
statistics, etc. It is not intended at this time to store all the daily
drivel of rec.gambling.*.
The archive is accessible via anonymous ftp to ftp.csua.berkeley.edu
(128.32.43.51). (Type "ftp ftp.csua.berkeley.edu" or "ftp 128.32.43.51"
and then "anonymous" when it asks for the name, followed by your email
address when it asks for the password. Then "cd pub/rec.gambling".)
If you have some things you would like to contribute to the archive,
contact ctl@csua.berkeley.edu.
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Q:I4 Where can I get books about gambling?
A:I4 (Steve Jacobs, Mike Northam)
Gambler's Book Club has a vast selection of books on topics related to
gambling. They are located at 630 South 11th Street in Las Vegas.
Gambler's Book Club
Box 4115
Las Vegas, NV 89127
(702) 382-7555
(702) 382-7594 (FAX)
(800) 634-6243 (orders only)
Gamblers Bookstore
99 N. Virginia St.
Reno, NV 89501
(800) 748-5797
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Q:I5 Where can I get discounts on gambling books/software?
A:I5 (Chuck Weinstock)
One of our rec.gamblers (Chuck Weinstock) has established relationships
with publishers of gambling books, newsletters, videos, and software and
offers their products at a discount to rec.gamblers. Orders must be
placed through Chuck Weinstock (weinstock@conjelco.com). Contact him for
a list of what is available, and ordering information, or look for the
ConJelCo Home Page at http://www.conjelco.com on the World Wide Web.
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Q:I6 What other sources of gambling information are available?
A:I6 (Martin Veneroso, John Murphy, Steve Jacobs)
Horse Racing
There is a mailing list for discussion of horse racing and handicapping.
If you are interested in joining us, send a note to derby-request@inslab.uky.edu
and be sure to include an Internet email address (i.e., a "@" address.).
Also see the newsgroup alt.sport.horse-racing.
Bay Area Poker List
The ba-poker mailing list is just a bunch of folks, mostly located in
the San Francisco Bay Area, who like to read about poker as it is played
in the Bay Area, and a few who like to write about it. We discuss both
home and commercial (card room) poker, including who's doing what where,
a smidgen of strategy, a few tall tales, and very little flaming
(although a couple of battles have broken out in the past).
A fair estimate of the traffic probably would be ten or twenty messages
a week, but they tend to be clumped around someone raising an issue. The
list as gone a couple of weeks without distributing any messages,
although that is becoming more rare as the number of subscribers climbs
slowly -- we have about 150 now.
To subscribe, send a message to majordomo@best.com, with a message body
of:
SUBSCRIBE ba-poker
or, for the digest version of the mailing list:
SUBSCRIBE ba-poker-digest
-- if you would like your message to be seen by a human rather than an
automated server, send it to owner-ba-poker@best.com (which goes to
Martin Veneroso).
Colorado Gaming Mailing List
Send email to ccbh-request@hpesjlm.fc.hp.com to join a mailing list for
gaming in Colorado.
The Foxwoods Maillist
The Foxwoods Maillist consists of folks who like to indulge in a little
poker, BJ, craps, roulette, etc., etc., even Bingo(!) at their favorite
cardroom/casino,... in this case the Foxwoods Resort Casino located near
Ledyard, CT. The maillist is used to trade trip report, discuss issues
of game strategy, checkup on "ride-sharing", plan for get-togthers and
special events (e.g. NETS tourney's), cry about "bad-beats", crow about
those big wins, etc., etc. There are (as of 5/15/95) approximately 100
subscribers to the list, and not all are located in the
Boston/Providence/Hartford/NYC area (there are even some CA rec.gamblers
subscribed!).
A World Wide Web page is also available to FW Maillist subscribers as
well as to the rec.gambling community in general, and contains
information on "Where is Foxwoods?", "How do you get there?", "What
about the hotels and restaurants at FW and in the surrounding area?",
"What are the games, and the comps policies?", Special Events, a "Who's
Who", an email archive, and a collection of FW trip reports. The URL for
The FW Maillist Homepage is:
http://www.tc.cornell.edu/~jeg/r.g/fox/fox.html.
All maillist administrivia (e.g. subscription requests, "unsubscribes",
etc.) should be sent to meta-fw-request@tc.cornell.edu. To send mail to
the approx. 100 folks currently subscribed to this maillist, send to
meta-fw-list@tc.cornell.edu.
Hotels
Questions about hotels and restaurants are often posted to
rec.gambling.misc. Similar information about Las Vegas can be found in
the newsgroup alt.vacation.las-vegas
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Section H: History of Rec.Gambling
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Q:H1 A brief history of rec.gambling.
A:H1 (thunk, Steve Jacobs, Selim Guncer)
The orginal RFD for rec.gambling was posted in mid 1989. alt.gambling
was created in August, 1989, by an over-enthusiastic netter who couldn't
wait for the voting. Meanwhile, the vote for rec.gambling was held, and
passed 189-41. The election results were announced on September 23,
1989, and the group created one week later.
During the early years (roughly 1990 and 1991), blackjack and craps were
probably the most popular topics on rec.gambling. This was before there
was a FAQ, and much of the focus was on card counting and computer
simulations of blackjack games. Flame wars between blackjack players and
craps players were popular. There was virtually no discussion of poker
during this time. The first BARGE took place in Aug. 1991 (before it was
ever called BARGE), and the Presto!/Irwin legend emerged at that time.
The Frank Irwin Memorial Commode Ceremony also came from this BARGE
trip. There were perhaps a dozen rec.gamblers at the first BARGE. The
first rec.gambling FAQ was created late in 1991.
The first WRGPT was launched in early 1992, with Will Hyde acting as
dealer. Poker discussions gained in popularity, partly as a result of
this tournament. Traffic on rec.gambling probably averaged about 10 to
20 posts per day during this time.
A formal proposal to split rec.gambling we presented early in 1995, and
passed by popular vote. The new newsgroups were created on June 5, 1995.
The original rec.gambling group was superceded by rec.gambling.misc, and
was scheduled to be rmgroup'ed on Aug. 7, (coincidently) right after
BARGE '95.
[This section could use a lot of work -- any volunteers?]
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Q:H2 What is WRGPT?
A:H2 (Steve Jacobs)
WRGPT stands for "World Rec.Gambling.Poker Tournament". This is an
annual poker tournament played by email. The tournament usually begins
in the fall, and usually lasts many months, to the complete aggravation
of some of the players.
WRGPT1 started early in 1992 with 30 players. WRGPT1 was dealt by hand,
with Will Hyde devoting much of his time to the task. Steve Jacobs won
the tournament by eliminating Ken Butler and Bharat Rao on the last hand
with K-T offsuit.
WRGPT2 attracted about 130 players, and began in the fall of 1992. This
tournament, and those that followed, were dealt by Ron Duursma's
excellent email poker server. Ed Baker took first place in this event,
coming from behind to eliminate Jeff Jennings. Roy Hashimoto was 3rd.
WRGPT3 attracted about 200 players, and began in the fall of 1993. Roy
Hashimoto won this event, becoming the second rec.gambler to win both
WRGPT and BARGE titles. Marco Westerweel placed second in this even, and
Kristofer Munn placed third, edging out fourth place Ron Duursma (to
whom we all owe much thanks for writing the mail server that is used to
deal WRGPT events).
WRGPT4 attracted 376 players, and was won Lee Jones, well known to
rec.gambling as the author of "Winning Low Limit Hold'em". Can Lee win
the BARGE '95 tournament to become the 3rd rec.gambler to win WRGPT/BARGE
tournaments back-to-back?
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Q:H3 What is BARGE?
A:H3 (Steve Jacobs)
[This is pretty rough folks, anyone with fond BARGE memories? If so,
please send them in for inclusion in the r.g history FAQ. My apologies
if I've left out important details, or gotten some fact fixed up here.]
BARGE stands for "Big August Rec.Gambling Excursion". This is the annual
rec.gambling gathering, so far always in August (can you imagine a worse
time to go to Vegas?), but if we go some other month we can change the
"August" to "Annual" in order to preserve the acronym.
The first BARGE consisted of maybe a dozen people, mostly in Vegas to
attend SIGGRAPH '91 (well, at least that's how they got their companies
to pay the airfare). We met at the Frontier for breakfast, and at
Gambler's Book Club to check out the latest periodicals. Several
rec.gamblers pitched in to purchase a book to help launch Abdul Jalib
M'Hall's blackjack career.
BARGE 2 had more attendees, about 20 in all, and included meetings at
the Frontier, GBC, and a live poker tournament held in a hotel room. The
main gathering took place at the Frontier coffee shop, where about a
dozen rec.gamblers met for a midnight meal (thanks, Edmund). In keeping
with rec.gambling tradition, Steve Jacobs won the first live BARGE poker
tournament, becoming the first rec.gambler to win both an WRGPT event
and a BARGE event.
BARGE 3 had about 30 attendees, of which about 20 participated in the
live poker tournament held at the Rio. Special chips were created to
commemorate BARGE 3, and were sold through rec.gambling to raise a prize
fund (including a set of 300 chips as a trophy) for the winner of the
tournament. Roy Hashimoto, who flew to Vegas especially for the
tournament, took first place. Each attendee at BARGE 3 received a
special limited edition purple BARGE chip, which have becoming highly
prized collectors items.
BARGE 4 had about 90 attendees, of which 60 paid entry fees in advance
for the live poker tournament at the Luxor. A calcutta was held the
night before to auction off players from the poker tournament. Roy
Hashimoto designed some fabulous poker chips for the BARGE 4 trophy,
which went to Dave Hughes. Cash prizes were paid for 1st through 6th
place, with teddy bears going to Jeff Jennings for placing 7th and to
John Murphy for being the first player to bust out of the tournament.
This year a live blackjack tournament was added to the agenda,
attracting about 30 players and many spectators to a high roller suite
somewhere on the world famous Las Vegas Strip. [Who won the BJ
tournament? Who bought Dave Hughes to win the Calcutta?] An informal
gathering for pot-limit Texas Hold'em was held later at the Luxor, and a
bachelor party was held for Steve "Bozo" Blackstock at a location which
might cause him undo grief if it were revealed here.
The early BARGE trips were mostly spontaneous events, with little
advance planning and consequently little advance notice, so if you
couldn't drop everything and fly to Vegas then you missed out. But, such
spontaneity isn't too practical for large groups, so now we try to plan
things a bit more. An email list has been created to help those
interested in BARGE to plan for the trip. To be added to the mailing
list, send email to BARGE-request@vmark.com. Messages to the mailing
list itself should be sent to BARGE@vmark.com.
See http://www.conjelco.com/barge.html for the latest information on
BARGE 95.
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